Rinne Trade

[esposito]

I'm trying to trade a goalie + forward for Rinne. I suggested Iginla + Brodeur, the other manager accepted but the commissioner thinks it's lopsided. I actually think I might be overpaying.

I'm currently in 3rd place and doing good in most forward categories, but not so good in goalie categories. Any thoughts? Should I stick with what I got for now and maybe trade Iginla/Brodeur later?

Other team:
C Stephen Weiss (Fla - C)
C Brandon Dubinsky (NYR - C,LW)
LW Tyler Ennis (Buf - C,LW)DTD
LW James Neal (Pit - LW)
RW Nathan Horton (Bos - RW)
RW Daniel Alfredsson (Ott - RW) IR
D Drew Doughty (LA - D)
D Alex Pietrangelo (StL - D)
D Kris Letang (Pit - D)
BN Joe Thornton (SJ - C)
BN Andrew Ladd (Wpg - LW)
BN P.A. Parenteau (NYI - RW)
BN Erik Johnson (Col - D)

G Henrik Lundqvist (NYR - G)
G Devan Dubnyk (Edm - G)
BN Pekka Rinne (Nsh - G)

[NightParade]

I think your commish is out in left field, but after tying to swing a deal in my league and offering up more and more on a couple of occasions sometimes you just aren't going to get a deal. Talk to your commish and ask him/her what would be fair, and see if you can iron something out. It may not fly, but I say go for it.

I agree, I can understand why you would make the move, but I certainly wouldn't call it lopsided in your favour.

[canadian_jabroni_69]

i dont understand why people go in leagues where a "commish" can do any rulings, if you play like that, atleast let the league vote, not just 1 guy. I think that isnt a lopsided trade, myself, if I had Rinne i wouldnt accept it

[esposito]

I've talked to some other guys in my league and they think the trade is fair, though they'd prefer if it didn't go through because I would benefit from it. ;-)

So you think it would be a wise move for me? Is it a good move for the other team as well? I don't want to rip him off either. He is struggeling alot in terms of scoring but obviously doing more than great in goalie stats.

I actually picked Iginla in the 2nd round, a couple of picks before Rinne went (6th goalie btw), so it kinda hurts to give my 2nd and 6th pick for someone I could have picked myself.

[mbr311]

How in the world can that trade POSSIBLY IN ANY FREAKIN' universe be vetoed????

That is a massive abuse of power. If anything I'd say the OTHER guy is slightly ahead since he's still getting a #1 in Brodeur AND a top 20 forward in Iginla. Kick this commish out next year or change the rules if he vetoes. That is seriously absurd. He has ZERO justification to veto it and I also think it's terrible gamesmanship for anyone to veto a trade because it makes you better (unless it's just a stupid trade).

[esposito]

I know everybody in my league so we're probably going to have a discussion about this and figure it out. I've already told one of them that I'll quit the league if this is being vetoed, since it's absolutlety absurd.

Is the trade a wise move for me or should I stick with what I got for now? There are not many options for a goalie trade since we are 14 teams and and all the "contenders" are going to hold on to theirs. Btw, Colorado and NJD are playing only two games each in the final week, so I'd actually prefer to get rid of Varlamov or Crawford. On the other hand I'll probably get the chance to pick up a goalie somewhere down the road in order to get more starts in the playoffs.

The only other team the might be up for a trade is this one, but I'm not sure how to get my hands on Howard :P
C Matt Duchene
C Jonathan Toews
LW Daniel Sedin
LW Matt Moulson
RW Patrick Kane
RW Jordan Eberle
D Jack Johnson
D P.K. Subban
D Andrej Meszaros
Util David Booth
BN R.J. Umberger
BN Joni Pitkanen
BN Paul Stastny
IR Ryan Whitney

G Jimmy Howard
G Mike Smith
BN Craig Anderson

[esposito]

The trade just went through and now I'm starting to think it was a bad move. Did I overpay? Should I have waited a little longer? :-P

Someone recently dropped Hemsky and I'll try to get him. There aren't many alternatives, so I hope this will do for now .. until he gets hurt again.

[BZoods]

I don't think you overpaid at all. Rinne is a top goaltender. Brodeur and Iginla are both starting to show their age from the looks of it.

[esposito]

That's what I wanted to hear! Thanks :)

[flubber]

I don't think you overpaid at all. Rinne is a top goaltender. Brodeur and Iginla are both starting to show their age from the looks of it.


THIS

Top goalies cost-- particularly in a 14 team league--- Brodeur has some recent injury issues so you had to give something additional-- It comes down to what you expect from Iggy-- If he is a 40 goal guy again, you probably "overpaid" -- BUT with his preseason injury, age and performance to date, its also reasonable to think that this year is the one where he finally drops off a fair bit.

I don't know how it turns out. Based on what we know now of performance to date, there was nothing crazy in what you offered. He was not going to give up Rinne for Brodeur and a marginal waiver wire guy

[mj12]

I personally think your trade was in your favour long term - Rinne is a keeper for sure - Brodeur is on the down side of his career (possibly retiring soon) - Iggy - same thing - the only value is the unkown in Iggy - if he gets traded then his value goes up (assuming he goes to a contending team). Calgary is not very good right now and you need to manage your team for today and not the unkown and assumptions....Good trade - I have Rinne as well and he is a rock in the net.....

[esposito]

Other managers are questioning the trade, saying it was fair but a bad move for the other guy, considering it may take a couple of weeks for Iginla and Brodeur to really get going. I responded that when Iginla and Brodeur get going, like last season for example, their combined value is higher than Rinne's imo. I'm not saying Brodeur is a #1 goaltender or anywhere near Rinne, but he's a pretty decent #2 in a 14 team league. Iginla was ranked 12th, 12 spots ahead of Rinne (though I agree that Yahoo!'s ranking is "a little" off) and I picked him before Rinne was picked. I still expect Iginla to get around 75-85p this season. He missed all pre-season and is a slow starter, but his stats are still better than at the same time last season. NJD do have a better start too, don't they?

EDIT: The guy I traded with is last in goals (totals and 0-5-0) and SOG (1-4-0) and somewhere around the middle in PPP and assists. The wire is constantly being monitored and picked clean, so there's not really anything there at the moment.

EDIT2: While I'm at it .. another manager is trying to trade Lucic + MA Bergeron for Zetterberg. I think it's a fair sell-high trade but I've heard others complain about it. What do you think?

[BZoods]

That trade screams of buy low, sell high. Lucic is a decent 65-70 point guy, but if Zetterberg gets going, he'll easily outpace that. And Bergeron COULD put up 40, but so could any rag-tag group of defensemen picked off of waivers weekly. If I was giving up Z, I'd ask for a bit more. Whether that means a better forward or a more consistent defenseman.

[flubber]

That trade screams of buy low, sell high. Lucic is a decent 65-70 point guy, but if Zetterberg gets going, he'll easily outpace that. And Bergeron COULD put up 40, but so could any rag-tag group of defensemen picked off of waivers weekly. If I was giving up Z, I'd ask for a bit more. Whether that means a better forward or a more consistent defenseman.

I disagree sort of-- Let me explain

If you look at last seasons numbers and the categories in Esposito's H2h

Lucic won goals 30-24 Zetterberg Assists 56-32
Lucic +/- 28 to minus 1 Zetterberg PPP 30-14
Lucic Hits --167-38 Zetterberg SOG 306-173
Lucic GWG 7-3 Zetterberg SHP 1-0

So each player wins 4 categories H2H-- some are dominant, some are narrow-- Also as factors in assessing the players NOW are Zetterberg's longer track record, positional flexibility, Lucics relative youth and room for improvement, team factors, and this years record.

So on his settings I don't think that Lucic for Zetterberg straight would be that insulting an offer. All that said-- I am aware that all the fantasy kits would show Zetterberg as far higher since they focus on points. Yahoo shows Zetterberg was on average drafted 26th to Lucic 62nd. All that means is that the Zetterberg side would likely expect something extra with Lucic in a trade. My analysis shows that even using last years numbers, its tough to say that Zetterberg is THAT clearly preferred . . . and on this years numbers Lucic is clearly ahead. You say that Zetterberg will easily outpace Lucic but even if he does, so what??

IN MY leagues I would take Lucic over Zetterberg every time but thats because all my leagues are keepers and all of them also have PIMS as a category. But if I had zetterberg, of course I would try to get more than a Lucic for him. Values are subjective so if I think Lucic=Zetterberg but most other managers thing Zetterberg > Lucic, I see a potential trading opportunity !!!

[esposito]

I agree with the post above. The manager who's going after Zetterberg whould throw in MA Bergeron, which makes this a very fair deal imo. If, and I guess this is a big if, Bergeron stays healthy, then the Lucic/Bergeron side wins this one I believe.

People are way to afraid of trading in my league, unfortunately. Sure, trades are supposed to be fair but each manager has to decide for himself whether or not the trade makes sense or not. In the case of my Iginla + Brodeur for Rinne trade I saw an opportunity to strengthen my team and took it. He needed an elite forward badly, I needed an elite goalie. Now the other teams are raising concerns that I pushed him into the trade, saying it was fair but a bad move for him (he's new to the game, I'm in my second season). If anything should happen to either Brodeur or Iginla, or if they have a bad year, then they'll be all over me, like I knew it was going to happen.

So the question is, was it a beneficial move for him in theory? (not asking if it was the best possible move, cause there are probably some who'd give him more and some who'd give him less)

His team right before the trade:
C Stephen Weiss (Fla - C)
C Brandon Dubinsky (NYR - C,LW)
LW Tyler Ennis (Buf - C,LW)DTD
LW James Neal (Pit - LW)
RW Nathan Horton (Bos - RW)
RW Daniel Alfredsson (Ott - RW) IR
D Drew Doughty (LA - D)
D Alex Pietrangelo (StL - D)
D Kris Letang (Pit - D)
BN Joe Thornton (SJ - C)
BN Andrew Ladd (Wpg - LW)
BN P.A. Parenteau (NYI - RW)
BN Erik Johnson (Col - D)

G Henrik Lundqvist (NYR - G)
G Devan Dubnyk (Edm - G)
BN Pekka Rinne (Nsh - G)


EDIT: Oh and btw, I actually offered him St Louis, Iginla or Marleau. He picked Iginla himself.

[flubber]

For him its an ok deal-- If Brodeur stays healthy and Iggy plays anywhere near how he did last year, he would even benefit quite a bit-- personally if I were him I would have grabbed St Louis though but thats a judgement call since Iggy looked out of sorts last year too before going on a tear . His goaltending now is a little questionable-- Lundqvist is lights out but then Brodeur with injury questions and a backup-- However I am betting given the small roster sizes in your league that there are viable waiver guys if Marty goes down again

I cannot see why anyone would say anything about the trade-- Its a guy that scored 40 goals LAST year and has 10 years of over 30 goals plus a top 10 goalie of all time !!!! You didn't give him Steve Mason !!!

Also how does someone push someone into a trade exactly? Do you have incriminating photos? Does he want to date your hot sister??

If the trade has been approved and goes through I would just stop chatting about it in the league. Disappear for a day or two from the league board or start a thread about Lucic's hit on Miller or whatever but stop trying to justify the trade . They don't have to like the trade . . . all they have to do is accept it was fair and legal. Once that happens if someone wants to comment, thats their right. I wouldn't bother trying to justify the trade anymore. Obviously you liked Rinne more than the Broduer/Iggy combo . . . otherwise you would not have done the deal!!! So if you try to explain the benefits of what you traded away, it sounds weird.

The only thing I WOULD deal with is any implication of wrongdoing or pushing people into things. If people commented about me that way I would respond.
Something like

"I have seen people hinting/saying that I pushed * into this trade. That is completely false and I resent the implication. * probably resents the idea he COULD be pushed but I cannot speak for him. On any trade you see . . . if you think that a player is worth far more than was given, the question is . . . where were you with YOUR offer?? Its all wonderful to indicate that you "would have" offered more but a manager can only asess what he has in front of him.

I believe generally in trading to improve my team. I see that as usual business in our league and invite trade proposals at any time. "