Stamkos for Howard

[Rocketman9]

I'm an NHL fan, but not a common one. I watch two games every night, and I've watched several Detroit games this year. Yes Howard is good, but he's not in the Rinne/Quick/Thomas conversation by any stretch, which would be the only goaltenders that could possibly justify trading Stamkos

You don't lump Lundqvist or even Luongo (minus his horrible start) in with either of those 3 you mention? For me though, I couldn't trade Lundqvist for anyone, not even Stamkos / Crosby (when healthy) / Malkin.

[SlimCliffy]

My mistake on excluding Lundqvist, yes he is definitely in that conversation, that was an omission.

Bobby Lou, however, is not (IMO). He's outside top-10 in G.A.A. and SV% this year. It's not entirely his fault, Vancouver hasn't really played up to their abilities consistently. If you look at his numbers, they are extremely comparable to Vokoun, another goalie I wouldn't put in that conversation either.

The huge thing with goalies that people don't realize is the ability to adapt your game. If you watch Thomas, he can go from hyper-aggressive to stay-in-the-net against any given opponent. Rinne's and Quick's athleticism never leave themselves out of the play. Lundqvist has actually re-tooled his game so that he plays deeper in the net, allowing him to get post-to-post on cross-ice passes more quickly and giving him more time to react to a shot.

The modern goaltender is evolving, and goalies like Luongo are lagging behind. Hockey has a Butterfly Effect, meaning hockey coaches and players have re-tooled entire systems and skill sets in order to overcome the butterfly style of goaltending. Goalies like Luongo and Vokoun have not adjusted their style of goaltending, but Rinne/Quick/Lundqvist/Thomas all have. Goalies like Luongo will still give you good stats, because they will still make the saves they are supposed to make. But goalies like Quick make the saves they aren't supposed to because of the adjustments they have made or the athleticism they possess, and thus they will give you great stats.

[Rocketman9]

My mistake on excluding Lundqvist, yes he is definitely in that conversation, that was an omission.

Bobby Lou, however, is not (IMO). He's outside top-10 in G.A.A. and SV% this year. It's not entirely his fault, Vancouver hasn't really played up to their abilities consistently. If you look at his numbers, they are extremely comparable to Vokoun, another goalie I wouldn't put in that conversation either.

The huge thing with goalies that people don't realize is the ability to adapt your game. If you watch Thomas, he can go from hyper-aggressive to stay-in-the-net against any given opponent. Rinne's and Quick's athleticism never leave themselves out of the play. Lundqvist has actually re-tooled his game so that he plays deeper in the net, allowing him to get post-to-post on cross-ice passes more quickly and giving him more time to react to a shot.

The modern goaltender is evolving, and goalies like Luongo are lagging behind. Hockey has a Butterfly Effect, meaning hockey coaches and players have re-tooled entire systems and skill sets in order to overcome the butterfly style of goaltending. Goalies like Luongo and Vokoun have not adjusted their style of goaltending, but Rinne/Quick/Lundqvist/Thomas all have. Goalies like Luongo will still give you good stats, because they will still make the saves they are supposed to make. But goalies like Quick make the saves they aren't supposed to because of the adjustments they have made or the athleticism they possess, and thus they will give you great stats.

Very nice. I still would not trade Lundqvist for anyone. That is unless goalie stats are a non-factor.

[MastaN8]

I could Counter for Quick, since he owns him as well...

[Rocketman9]

Go for it.

[SlimCliffy]

The only goaltender, IMO, that could possibly justify a Stamkos trade is Rinne, because he gets the wins, ratios and shutouts. Quick doesn't get enough wins because his team can't score.

But that's just my thinking.

[Mike]

I could Counter for Quick, since he owns him as well...

I would prefer Howard given your situation.

[Rocketman9]

The only goaltender, IMO, that could possibly justify a Stamkos trade is Rinne, because he gets the wins, ratios and shutouts. Quick doesn't get enough wins because his team can't score.

But that's just my thinking.

I wouldn't trade Lundy for Stamkos, maybe Rinne.

[NightParade]

I don't really think it matters how good Howard actually is, if he was just a stick laying across the ice and the team still only allows 2.35 goals a game that stick would still have fantasy value.

I actually am one of the people who does believe that Howards stats are inflated due to him being on a great team, but that doesn't make him less valuable in a fantasy format, as a matter of fact it might make him more valuable as his team will be able to pick up slack when he has a bad outing.

Still, the point it is doesn't matter why he has good stats, all that matters is that he does.

[SlimCliffy]

Still, the point it is doesn't matter why he has good stats, all that matters is that he does.

This late in a 1 year league, that could be right. Early in a 1 year league or in any keeper league, that can be a recipe for quick disaster.

Example: Vrbata has 26 goals and 47 points, Anze Kopitar has 17 goals and 50 points, and Vrbata is actually rated ahead of him on the ESPN player rater (as far as my league's stats are concerned: G, A, +/-, ATOI, PPP, PIM, SOG). If someone were to offer you their Vrbata for your Kopitar, would you take it?

How or why a player gets their stats make ALL the difference in the world. Would Alex Burrows (who is ahead of Vanek, Eberle, Pietrangelo, Hall on the Rater) have near the fantasy impact if he played on the third line in Vancouver? Would Elliott and Halak be putting up the numbers they are if St. Louis wasn't playing lockdown defense, allowing the fewest shots against per game in the NHL (and fewer per game since Hitchcock replaced Payne than before he got fired)?

If Burrows gets demoted to playing with Malhotra, his fantasy value is almost nothing. If the Blues don't turn their season around and buy into defense-first hockey, we're talking about when Ben Bishop is going to get a fair crack at the big team instead of which goalie the Blues are going to rely on in playoffs.

Numbers without context are just that, numbers.