Idea for non-keeper LWL FHL

[BZoods]

If we're going to have 2 or more non-keeper leagues, I think something that could make it interesting would be to set the leagues up in a form similar to the promotion-relegation system that European soccer uses.
Basically for the first year we would just randomly sort the teams into 2 (or more) leagues, and at the conclusion of the year, the top 1/3(or 1/4, etc) of the bottom league(s) would move up a league, while the bottom 1/3(or 1/4, etc) of the top league(s) would move down a league.
This would give the non-keeper leagues more of a "franchise" feel, as there would be a goal from season to season.
The possible benefits of this include, but are not limited to:

• After a year or two, the leagues would mostly be on even playing fields in terms of managing ability
• It not only creates competitions for the top spots, but creates incentive for players to get out of the bottom.
• Makes for a change of pace from year to year.

The only problem with this arises in the case of a manager not wishing to return after a season. In this case, a replacement would be found, but would not be promoted if replacing a top team from the past season, the promotion would be passed down to the next in line. If they're replacing a demoted team, they will start in the lower league, however.
This is something that I've wanted to try for a few years, but I've never had enough possible managers to make it a reality. The large group of users that LWL has attracted to creating additional leagues, would allow for this to happen.

[internalprime8]

My only problem with this is that it seems to suit keeper leagues more than non-keepers. If your team has totally different players from year-to-year, what's to say your performance will not change just as drastically? It's a cool idea and I might be willing to try it if we managed to get enough for 2 non-keeper leagues but I'm not sure non-keeper is the correct format to accomplish it.

[BZoods]

Well, in the case of it being a keeper format, it becomes inevitable that one team will keep a player that is kept in the league they are being moved. You can't have the same player twice, so there's that. Alternatively, if you have the leagues draft in tiers relative to their league first (which would give the least talent to the bottom teams)... the one idea that I might have in regards to this is the possibility of a draft that would alternate draft rounds between the leagues. I agree that this would make for a much more interesting league, but the complications make a non-keeper seem more feasible.

[internalprime8]

I guess I hadn't thought of players moving from one league to another, for some reason I assumed both leagues would share the same pool of players. I suppose it could make for an interesting twist on normal leagues. And it would make the two league more closely connected rather than remaining totally independent of each other.

[Tim]

Flubber has brought this idea up before I believe. The teams being promoted would take over the bottom 3 teams in the top league and the teams being relegated would take over the top 3 teams in the bottom league. I don't really like the idea of doing it in a keeper league because I find it fun to give up a little now to have a better future. You can't really do that if you're worried about being relegated to a different team and league. I just don't really like the idea of changing teams in a keeper league. Isn't that the point of a keeper...to keep and grow your team over the years? I never thought of using this idea in a non-keeper. At first glance this actually looks like a pretty good idea to me. You're going to change teams every year anyways and it keeps the bottom teams in the top leagues from being less active or quitting (shouldn't be a problem here but still).

[BZoods]

Well. A keeper league is possible, it would just require a drastically different drafting structure. You can't just have the tier 1 teams draft their teams and then have the lower tier(s) pick the leftovers. That doesn't leave much for the bottom teams in regards to talent, and if that's the case, I can't see the bottom teams maintaining interest. If a tier-ed keeper league were to be developed, a draft structure would have to be created that gives the lower tiers some talent as well. The easiest way to accomplish this would just be to alternate rounds between the tiers. It would make the top tier teams have a higher level of talent, but not significantly so.

[Tim]

Well. A keeper league is possible, it would just require a drastically different drafting structure. You can't just have the tier 1 teams draft their teams and then have the lower tier(s) pick the leftovers. That doesn't leave much for the bottom teams in regards to talent, and if that's the case, I can't see the bottom teams maintaining interest. If a tier-ed keeper league were to be developed, a draft structure would have to be created that gives the lower tiers some talent as well. The easiest way to accomplish this would just be to alternate rounds between the tiers. It would make the top tier teams have a higher level of talent, but not significantly so.

With 32 teams there would be hardly any good players on each team. I don't think that would be interesting at all. The only way of doing it is using all the players in both leagues. Then have the bottom 3 of the top league and top 3 of the bottom league be promoted/relegated.

[Cowtown]

With 32 teams there would be hardly any good players on each team. I don't think that would be interesting at all. The only way of doing it is using all the players in both leagues. Then have the bottom 3 of the top league and top 3 of the bottom league be promoted/relegated.

True dat. If managers were regularly struggling to find contributions from marginal players, while limited to 4 moves per week, the frustration factor would hit hard and probably early, causing a drop-off in interest, and uninvolved managers. I think this comes under the heading of trying too hard to make it interesting. Either way, I'd suggest letting it go for a year to see how the current set up plays out.